Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:04.2000000 I'm Alan McFarlane. Welcome to conversations with Al McFarlane. I'm glad to be hearing from you, have you along as always, we promise robust conversations. Today's guest is a person that I guarantee you will deliver just that he's Joe news. He's the founder and CEO of the muse advertising agency in California. And he's been considered one of the creators of multi cultural advertising. He's led his company news to national prominence over three decades. The company became America's first multicultural advertising agency, specializing in reaching diverse consumers by producing award winning work for world-class clients, such as American Nanda, Nike Wells Fargo, us army, and the office of national drug control policy under his leadership news has become a beacon of support and empowerment for aspiring creative professionals and people of color seeking to develop successful careers in advertising. And as the agency's chief creative officer, Joe muse oversees the creative development of advertising.
Speaker 0 00:01:16.4400000 That's a company among his numerous international and domestic commendations for creative excellence, uh, include ad weeks magazines, designation of the best creative director in the West. He's also been named by the Los Angeles business journal as one of the top 20 advertising leaders in Southern California. Uh, Joe Joe Mueller was pleased to meet you. Welcome to conversations with Al McFarlane. Well, that was a mouthful. I appreciate being here and thanks for having it well, thanks for the opportunity. You know, we're in a special time and you and I are in a special business. We are communicators our mission. Our vision is to interpret the world, uh, to audiences that we serve and to companies that we serve with the world is such a weird place right now with COVID-19 and the challenges that come out of the recent, um, uh, uh, uprisings associated with the deaths of George Floyd here in Minneapolis and st.
Speaker 0 00:02:16.7400000 Paul. So I want to start the conversation, talking a communicator to communicate her, your impression of where we are as a country and as a world, given your profession, your work, your mission. Well, I have to say now that I'm an optimist, and even in spite of all the tremendous issues we have, whether it has to do with justice or whether it applies directly to our wellbeing, as in the case of Colvin, I believe that if we follow certain instructions, follow certain rules, listen to the, uh, epidemiologists and those who suggest that we wear mask and, and find ways to social distance that
Speaker 1 00:03:00.1900000 Will come out of this thing and in good shape. But, and needless to say, it's one of those remarkable things that comes on once in a hundred years. And the mix that with the civil unrest that's occurring, certainly reminds us a little bit on the sixties, but more importantly, it has a different feeling now. And I'm optimistic about that as well. Let me ask you to think back to where you were when the thing unfolded with Rodney King in Southern California, uh, last generation almost. And how does that look when you look at the George Floyd instrument today? What's your thoughts? Well, two things, I think it was the first attempt at nationalized video. I mean, we saw that video of Rodney King being beaten so many times in such a short period of time that it was stunning. It stunned us and shocked us nonetheless, over the brutality that the police were providing on him.
Speaker 1 00:04:00.9400000 Uh, what makes it different with the problems we have in your Caribbean and Minnesota today is there is a too many occurrences of black men dying as a result of being a succumb by Chuck holes and knee holes. And the action that occurred just a month ago was so shocking and it's in humanity that it reached a new level of dissonance and, and now people are continuing to March in the streets, uh, th the time for, to end social injustice, racial injustice is upon us. You think it's doable? Is it possible? Yeah, I do. I think there's a couple things that make it work. Uh, I think course the mediums and the messages on radio and, and other ways that we reach out to the public are critical. Social media is critically important now for mobilization, but I think one of the biggest elements that makes a big difference, and I think they'll make a bigger difference are the athletes who are coming out, supporting the efforts of racial justice. And I think the athletes have a remarkable platform to stand on. And I think what we'll see for years ahead, athletes taking a bigger position as it relates to the problems that we face is the rates in the community. From a marketing point of view, that's obviously very important F a huge presence and huge platforms. And for them to have the, uh, uh, degree of confidence and the lack of fear and the ability to not be a sort of, uh,
Speaker 0 00:05:58.0700000 Uh, what's the word coward, it's not the right word, but dampened by the threat of a loss of income, that's a major difference. I think in terms of the playing field for athletes being able to come forward and to state, uh, what's, their positions are on social issues in the past. They couldn't. And so, uh, talk about that for a second. Why is this so different for athletes that come forward and artists to come forward in ways they haven't in the past?
Speaker 1 00:06:26.7700000 Well, I think it's social media piece of it. These men and women have millions of followers, and they know that their currency as an athlete and as a person really pivots on how they use that platform. And whether it's a remarkable athlete like LeBron James, or whether it's just a really good basketball player who decides he wants to stand out against these issues, they have a much bigger platform. I also believe that there's a social political connection that they have with the men and women who run our government, that they can imply and promote social change in a very different level than it used to in the past different than Muhammad Ali are different than, than, uh, the men at the Olympics years ago. Uh, there's ways to do it. And I think they're smart enough and they have teams big enough where they can make that occur and cause the social change,
Speaker 0 00:07:34.6300000 It seems like one of the differences Joe mules is that now because of social media, the artist or the athletes have more direct contact contact with huge audiences and in the past, however, their sense of power probably was more connected to the contract that you have with the company or the ballpark ball team that they played for and the general manager and the one who pays their paycheck, right? And so the fans, et cetera, but now they've created this independent relationship with the fans that really overshadows almost, or at least put them in a better bargaining position. What's the club with the manager. So they can call the shots differently than even wilt Chamberlain could have, or Elgin, Baylor those guys a generation ago, because they have a, not to depend on exclusively the link between them and the club, but rather have all the energy of the millions of followers who are fans, who turn into customers for the franchise, right. And they can leverage that differently. So talk about the change, uh, how that power has emerged and how they are, and consequently, you and I are able to leverage that for advancement, not only for our customers and our clients, but for our community and for black folks, what do you think?
Speaker 1 00:09:01.2200000 I think LeBron James and David stern, then the commissioner of the NBA made remarkable change when David stern allowed a LeBron to announce where he was taking his skills when he moved to Miami. And that was the beginning of it. And it's, it's developed until it seems like we had a leak sweepstakes and spatch year where the basketball players are all getting together and deciding what teams to go with. And that is a remarkable change in the atmosphere, as well as the, the echo sphere of professional sports. And I think that's a beginning to something and I think it'll be there. There've been men marching in the streets. I know I'm thankful to see them do it responsibly. And I know that a lot of it has to do with their own money and getting the money, but I think they'll make a difference in this, uh, environment that is different from the athletes in the past.
Speaker 0 00:10:09.3800000 COVID-19, uh, you mentioned this, you said, you know, the, the confluence of COVID-19 and the uprisings we'll call it that a person could call it riots and call it a rebellion. Uh, and the names do matter where you are, but I'll call them uprisings for my purposes right now. So the confluence of the uprisings and COVID-19, uh, look at this right, eight minutes and 46 seconds of video, uh, and you and I, and the world witness, uh, the, uh, uh, commission or the Cardinal sin, the murder of a human being, right. But in that moment is a metaphor for, uh, uh, the disparities that are evident also in this current pandemic crisis that our communities black and Brown communities are doubly and triply impacted by the consequences of the COVID-19 virus because of, uh, comorbidities, I think is the right words that are using other conditions, underlying conditions.
Speaker 0 00:11:22.5200000 And so that reveals a inexpensive and historical set of disparities in healthcare and healthcare outcomes. But that set of disparities is also connected to disparities in education, home ownership, wealth creation. Uh, and so these are all, they call them the social determinants of health, right. All connected together. So it seems to me that we're at a watershed moment and call it, um, uh, um, a point where a lot of things that are connected are becoming clear, clearer than they have been because of the connection. And now is a moment for a major potential change. What, what do you think about that and how do you analyze where we are right now?
Speaker 1 00:12:08.9700000 I think that's a wonderful way to decided when you look at the economics of it, the healthcare, the education, and then of course the, the, the welfare for people to be well in, in the middle of an epidemic as, as we're going through a pandemic. But I think what makes this a watershed moment is all these elements have come together in a confluence of sorts, very unpredictably, giving us a solution to how to solve some of these, uh, issues in our, in our world. One of the key elements of the change and COVID, and the effects of the professional athlete, they have already, there's pledges of millions of dollars coming from corporate America to help, uh, improve the lives of African Americans in the communities that we live. And I think that can be taken about us creating law changes in law that can get rid of if, if nothing else to choke hold and the neck hole so that black men don't continue to die at the hands of police. I think those are critical pieces and you're right. The time is of essence now to have Washington and the communities all rise up together and bring about the change. I think it's going to be a little different than it was doing Columbine and some of the other terrible occurrences in the past with the politics steep for a while, and then dissipated. I don't think that politics are going to dissipate. I think actions will have to occur, or the people in the streets are going to continue to keep creating a civil protest.
Speaker 0 00:14:03.0900000 I'm Al McFarlane. This is conversations with Al McFarlane. My guest joining me from California is Joe meal's. He's the head of muse advertising agencies. That's the proper name?
Speaker 1 00:14:13.7700000 Well, actually the name is, uh, news and we, and we do advertising. So nothing wrong with that. The company is muse. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:14:24.6300000 Yes. That's a wonderful name. Uh, and so thank you for being in the conversation. I, you know, I'm, uh, enjoying the opportunity to talk with you because I want to ask you to walk us through, uh, what's happened. What's changed during your career in the advertising and media and communications field, how you and other African-Americans Nagel to break through and to create a space and expand
Speaker 1 00:14:52.1600000 The space that's, what's happening with you. But it's also happening in film and television in sports is we're discussing across the board. These things happened together, sort of in tandem. Uh, talk about your development, your movement into the advertising agency business and your career. Well, it's a hard thing to talk about because honestly, when I begin to talk about the progress, what I'm damping by is that over the years there hasn't been much progress of people who look like me and you running advertising agencies. So I'm still a rare breed in the annals of advertising. And even though my career started in, I was born in Holly Springs, Mississippi, and, and developed a career in Detroit, Michigan. And, and in developing that career, developed an advertising agency on the West coast. And I'm happy to say that after 30 years of involvement, I was recently named to the advertising hall of fame.
Speaker 1 00:15:54.2300000 So I'm very proud of those accomplishments, but at the same time, I looked back and I noticed that the numbers of African American men who continue to participate in the advertising business are dwindling. And even though, um, there's some sign of progress. And recently there was an open letter of 600 African American men and women who complained to ad agencies about their plight in the advertising business. This still is a tremendous shortage of people who look like us running advertising agencies and being strong entrepreneurs. I'm very proud of the work that I've done over the years with the companies I've worked for. And even recently, I completed, I wrote a book called Nick's blessings is race real, and it's a novel, and it's done pretty well as well. So, um, I've changed my, uh, career to be a bit more about, uh, giving back. And I've started a podcast called musings with Joe muse, and it is about, uh, me giving wisdom and having people like you.
Speaker 1 00:17:09.9800000 And I talk to young people on the come up and giving them tips and advice to what they can do to achieve. So I think it's all about being able to give back and to enjoy the relative levels of your success, but there's still just a tremendous amount left to do. Let me talk about your beginnings. So you said you were from Holly Springs, Mississippi. That's a wonderful place. I don't know if you were there. How long were you there? How many years I was there until, uh, four years of age, and then we moved to Detroit, but we traveled there every summer. So let's talk smiling as I say this, because
Speaker 0 00:17:50.6400000 My family is from, uh, from sunflower, Mississippi on my mother's side. And my wife is from, uh, near Jackson, Mississippi place, Paul crystal Springs. And I go back to Mississippi all the time and I love Mississippi, but Mississippi is a place that my mother did not love because she and her sisters kind of left that night. Uh, the Greyhound bus and in their mind, they were escaping from sunflower because they were sharecroppers who could never get out of debt. And the best they could do was disappear. And nobody in the family, I would say they knew where they went. They were just gone, but there was a way of leaving one by one in the still of the night. This is back in the thirties or something like that. Talk about your family stories and Mississippi.
Speaker 1 00:18:38.9600000 Well, my, my parents were sharecroppers as well and automotive industry workers. Uh, they left Mississippi, uh, right around the time I was four or five years old. And they went to the Troyer to work in the automotive industry and we were on welfare and we developed a certain skill sets. And I, I have learned how to be conservative in the way I was brought up. I don't mean conservative like Republican conservatives. I mean, conservative about being careful with the money you have, right. Being very cautious about what you spend on and keeping a certain frugality, no matter where you are in terms of your influence. And that's been a part of my Mississippi background, I'll share one other thing about the, uh, growing up in Mississippi. I remember the first moment I read, uh, from a, uh, a sign and what that sign said was white only.
Speaker 1 00:19:43.8200000 And I was trying to drink water from a water fountain. And my father grabbed me by the scuff of my neck and pulled me off. And I learned how to read it that moment, learning how to read. I also began to appreciate the certain simplicity of both the whites and blacks and people. We grew up with the Mississippi, not sure racism was difficult and stiff, but there was a certain honesty about the racism that lets you know, where you stood. I didn't have to worry about whether the man's looking at me rudely or scouring with someone I should stay away from. I knew instinctively I should pray it away from him. And I know when I went up North, there was a little bit more of this. Everyone appearing to be your friend, but really not being your friend. So I learned a little bit about that out in authenticity, and I still appreciate the honesty of the, uh, the Fort writes racists who, uh, lived in brew in the South. It's a strange way to look at it. But then in some ways having a forthright racist around is better than having someone who's conniving and nipping at your heels and acting like that,
Speaker 0 00:21:03.6300000 Your friend and her giving you a thousand microaggressions, right. And killing you softly as they say, well, you know, I remember two stories that we talk about Mississippi. One is that my wife talks about growing up in crystal Springs and once being in the general store in downtown crystal Springs, accidentally with her grandmother bumping into a little white girl. Right. And, uh, she just remember how the white girl recoiled, how the white girl's parents scowled at her. And she had this feeling of sudden and search and Carver. And so, you know, how do you live with, uh, having that potential to be in terror instantly? And what kind of scarring does that do? And then the second thing is that my, uh, I remember when my great aunt died before he might've been like a hundred years old when I was maybe 12 or something like that.
Speaker 0 00:22:00.0600000 She called me in and said out Alvin, uh, I want you to remember when you see white people. She was in Kansas city at the time where I grew up, I was born and she was giving me advice to keep me alive. When you see white people always remember to say yes and Nome. Yes sir. No, sir. And so obviously at 12, I'm sitting here burning up inside, humiliated, mad that she has to tell me, and I know why she's telling me this, right. Her experiences. This is how you stay alive. Because if you don't adopt that posture of taking low you risk life and limb, they will kill you. And so that's what were two stories that kind of make me remember, you know, both the pressure of Mississippi, but even despite that there's so much love in our people and so much genius in our people to live under that and through it and to emerge out of it stronger, better. Uh, and I think we have become our true selves and that is a gift to humanity on the question of both humility, sincerity, and genuine appreciation of what it means to be human being. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 00:23:18.6300000 I think he gets stronger. You know what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. In many ways, those harsh moments you speak of were, uh, sheltered from us, from my parents. I, I recall sitting down with my mom not too many years ago and talking about the, the, the vial times of Jim Crow and she would not want to speak on it. And she even started to tell me about some lynchings that have occurred in and around her when she was growing up and she couldn't bring herself to mention it. And I, I tried to press her to tell me more about it. And she, she went to her death with not ever telling me the stories of these types of moments of inhumanity that has strengthened us. And I'll also say that even though she went through that kind of pain and anguish, she had love in her heart.
Speaker 1 00:24:17.0900000 She had love in her heart of all people. She had no problems embracing white folks who lived next to us or around us when we moved to Detroit. And she was always a proponent of love and brotherly love for all mankind. So I think there's a certain principle that will, those moments offer us to be stronger. And I know it's hard to convey to young men and women today of what those times were like. But I think what they can do is adjust to the prospect of maybe it's things like values and beliefs that shape us in life. And if we stay more connected to values beliefs, and, and of course our families and making sure our children grow up and are nurtured, then those kinds of things will carry us forward.
Speaker 0 00:25:11.8300000 I'm Al McFarlane. This is conversations with Al McFarlane. My guest is Joe muse, the founder of muse a in multicultural marketing advertising agency, based in California, Joe, the notes here say that, uh, your creative work has won key industry creative awards, including buildings Cleos Andy's, Kelly's FAS the one show and recognition recognition from the West coast art directors club of Los Angeles, women in advertising, California magazine, the camps international film festival, uh, also, uh, John O'Toole agency of the year award from the American association of advertising agencies. And, uh, as you mentioned, uh, recently add colors, lifetime achievement award. Think back to the four year old, Joe, what does the world look like? What did you want to be at that time and went, that's a sense of who you have become begin to form itself in your, your mind, your body, your consciousness?
Speaker 1 00:26:20.4100000 Well, I can truthfully say that at four or five years old. I didn't know my hat from Shinola. I mean, it was, it was such a time growing up that, um, they were, they were concerned that whether or not I was fully conscious and, and a responsible kid, I, I, I spent time, uh, learning. In fact, I learned early in life that I was a bit, uh, dyslexic. And, um, at the, at the same time of my reading difficulty, I have a large imagination and I would play out in the back, uh, backyard with myself and friends and really loved the time of play and enjoyment that I learned to, uh, play with those creativity notions and look for different ways to communicate and express myself. And I found theater, uh, an interesting, uh, advocation I was involved in, in music and I learned to appreciate science.
Speaker 1 00:27:33.9600000 And those are the things that I developed most in my career and became a writer later, uh, as a writer of advertising, I wrote a lot of those award reading scripts for Nike and Honda and, and other places. But more importantly, I set out to write the book that I spoke of mixed blessings is race real. And it's been out for about a year now and it's done well, uh, as a new author. I, I can say that I've gotten hundreds of great reviews from people who recognized and the story of race riots and religion, uh, just as relevant in today's times. And, um, I'm looking forward to having my second book, uh, from Mississippi to Madison Avenue, be out later on in the year where I've been talking a bit more about how I develop my skill sets in advertising. So when did, uh, the writing skill develop?
Speaker 1 00:28:34.4100000 What was school like for you in Detroit? How long were you in Detroit from four years, four years old until when I was in Detroit, until I went to college, I went to Michigan state university and, um, I, I was pretty much like any kid growing up. The thing I remember most was the music and the music of the temptations and the four tops and everything time we were, we grew up in a middle of that. What's your high school class? 66 68, 68 68. Okay. Alright. Alright. And, um, I remember sitting down in one of the classrooms, uh, taking a song the way you do the things you do and trying to put those lyrics together to give to a young girl sitting in front of me. And I was stealing from Eddie Kendricks when I was doing it. So that's my biggest memory about growing up and being a writer is that there was so much great writing around that music and it had my attention and still does today was a bustling and always has been a bustling city, uh, full of entertainment, full of energy, creativity, entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 00:29:50.4100000 I'm thinking of two people that I know, obviously Malcolm X came out of Detroit, right? Yes. I don't know if you had chance to run across him in your young days in Detroit or not, or the impact you would have had on the community. A favorite of mine though, you might or might not know, was a musician, sun RA. And he was based in Detroit for a long time and, and a theatrical person as well. I remember Sunroc no kidding. And, and the thing about, uh, Malcolm that I recall was just the nation of Islam and the kind of support I got from that community in Southwest Detroit, I've always grown up with a connection to the nation and even to this day, a revel and some of the support and the bit of the beneficiary that they've been for us in our communities and still strong today. In fact, one of the characters in my book mixed blessings is a character. And this online Farrakhan is like Farrakhan in a lot of ways. So I do remember Malcolm, I certainly remember the, the important contributions of the black Muslims and I
Speaker 2 00:31:09.1500000 Today. <inaudible>,
Speaker 1 00:31:11.8800000 I'm from Detroit university. What did you do in school? What was your major in school and, and, uh, what was that like part of your life? Like? Well, that part of my life was a blur. I spent more time hanging out, having some fun. I was having a whole lot of fun, but I was also a chemistry major, my Mio chemistry major. So I had science on my mind and, uh, it wasn't too long into my, my college career that I began to pursue other interests. And I learned about advertising because my brother had worked at an ad agency in Detroit, Michigan, and I learned a little bit from him about it and decided to take it on as a full time pursuit. And I loved it was, it was better than having a real job. I'd tell you that it was a lot of fun and I encourage young people to consider it for future endeavors.
Speaker 1 00:32:12.0900000 Absolutely. It's a, when did you discover you had either a gift or a talent or an approach that could be fruitful that could be productive and that could be monetized. Was that a slow discovery or did you come upon that quickly? When did you decide, you know what? I can make a living. I can make some money doing this, plus have some fun. Well, the first thing that I noticed was my teachers had a particular on me for things I did in the classroom, whether it be reciting poetry, whether it be, uh, speaking lines of a play that I had a certain theatrical and entertainment skillset that they noticed. And then what added to it was that I was good at math. And that may be a particular sort, uh, probably a little different than most kids, good math and sports. And, and I did up as much kidding around as a 12 or 13 year old could and somehow found ways to stay out of trouble.
Speaker 1 00:33:20.0300000 The other aspect that I think made a big difference is that I worked from the time I was about nine or 10 with, uh, whether I worked as a cleaners assistant in a dry cleaning, uh, establishment, or whether I sold newspapers, I always work and continue to work my entire life and can't stop now. So at 70, like I said, I'm doing podcasts and writing books and doing speaking engagements. And I still like to provide as much as I can to people around. Did you have a moment of epiphany where you said, you know what I got, I don't think it was a pithany. I, I think for me, I was scared and fearful when I started to step out and try to do different things. And I noticed that I couldn't do it alone. And I prayed and use the background of my belief in God to fuel me.
Speaker 1 00:34:31.2800000 And it was that belief in God and his support. And of course, all the tenants that go with doing things well and honoring your mother and father and honoring the people in your life and trusting the golden rule and doing upon doing the others as you have them do to you. And those things became the fuel for me. I think I, I live my life even today as being pretty much an ordinary guy. Who's done some remarkable things. And I think that platform gives me a way to reach out to young men and women who are C students. Like I was B students, not a students and, and, and not kids who were getting on honor roll, but I was a pretty much a kid who had to struggle through most of his career, but I kept pressing back on the power of God in my life and, and doing, trying to do the right things that my parents taught me.
Speaker 1 00:35:37.9200000 And those are the things that I remember today. What do you know about your genealogy? Do you, have you studied or your family comes from along the maternal or paternal lines? Are you curious about that? Well, I did a little study into that. And as you would probably figure out that, looking at you and looking at me that there's African blood in my background, West African, and, uh, surprisingly enough, we discovered that I have 20% Irish flood now coming from Mississippi, you don't have to go very far to figure out where the Irish blood, uh, there's also Indian blood. And my, my background telling Indian and Mississippi is a part of my grandmother's background. So Choctaw, Irish and African are my background and no, no Kings and, and, um, uh, remarkable men and women that I know of from the slavery days or before slavery days.
Speaker 1 00:36:46.9200000 But as I said, I tend to perceive myself as a bit of an ordinary man. Who's done some remarkable things. So, um, California and opening agency, or your first big, uh, breakthroughs in business? Well, I will never forget the time when I made an overture to the people at American Honda to do business with them. And I was rejected a couple of ways, uh, and thought very little about getting into that company again, but then things happen with regard to affirmative action and issues that, um, had them come back to me later and put me on a list and I competed against others to win a piece of business with American Honda and sure enough, we won that business. And that was our start. A similar thing happened with Nike, uh, participated in a review and won that business. So I learned to compete and I learned different ways of approaching the, the art of persuasion and selling through ideas. And that was one of my strong suits. So we, we developed a pretty fine agency as a result of those skills.
Speaker 1 00:38:12.3899999 Well, two stories there, we grew to about 70 people on and about $60 million worth of business. And I thought that that was, was growing cumbersome. I didn't like the fact that I couldn't, uh, know every single one who worked for me a bit more like a family. So I reduced size of the agency to around 40, and that was much better for me. And I was able to do more nurturing and I developed a mentor relationship with a young man named will Campbell. And I sold the agency to him about two years ago. And I'm still a consultant in the company and his company is called news quantity. And in Los Angeles, Will's a great guy and still has the clients that I started with plus clients of the zone.
Speaker 0 00:39:09 That's interesting. So you have the vision to bring this to the right size for your tolerance and for your comfort level, but also the vision to mentor and develop and groom a successor to you and the company continues, um, um, um, strengthened by, uh, the, uh, the brand enhancement that, uh, mr. Campbell represents. I think the talk about your sense of how we should be doing business across the spectrum in the black community to grow and to, um, make more sustainable our efforts in the entrepreneurial arena.
Speaker 1 00:39:51.9900000 Well, a couple things there. I, I liked the idea of knowing what path they're on when you think you're achieving something. And I learned that I was in the path to pass on my business to another African American. And at the time it occurred, I didn't see it. I didn't see it happen. Uh, I took on a certain interest to develop the best business that I could and to sell to anyone who, uh, what had the money to purchase the agency. But what I learned through my times with Frank Mingo, an advertising agency legend, and also John H. Johnson advertising industry legend, and, uh, Byron Lewis and, and, um, just other men and women who participated in the advertising business was that when you stopped and looked at it, there were people like you who thought acted and felt in a certain way. And there was a chance that always, but there was a chance that you could bond and work together in a very special way to achieve.
Speaker 1 00:41:06.4800000 So when I noticed people like, like, uh, Clarence from essence magazine and, and ed Lewis from essence magazine, they helped me in life. In my career. It seemed natural to give back. And I gave back and over my years, I've spent time supporting the work of black radio, black press, the magazines, anything I could, and other historically black colleges and universities, I've given millions of dollars through my corporate spending to eight and that program. And those are the things that I discovered was on my path. And I did not know them to be the direction I was in. That's hard to explain, but when I finally noticed that things were, uh, setting up to be a big support to my community and to work through young advertising, people of color that I decided to stay on that path. And I'm glad I did.
Speaker 0 00:42:17.2000000 Did you know Danny Bakewell out in California? You know, Danny, Bakewell
Speaker 1 00:42:20.4700000 Worse, the Danny and I did some work together. Absolutely. Uh, we did some work with Wells Fargo bank and, uh, I think Danny would, uh, thank me for some work that I was able to get a few, few, uh, nuggets out of Wells Fargo for black radio stations and black newspapers. I spent a lot of time working with the black press and helping them achieve and, and get more advertising dollars, uh, through corporate America. Yeah, I do consider Danny a close associate and the friend,
Speaker 0 00:42:56.5900000 He's a good guy. He, uh, Danny owns a for our listeners, the owner, his family still owns the LA Sentinel, correct? Yes. And Danny's a real estate developer, I believe so. He's, uh, he was doing development work before he bought the newspaper. But as the newspaper owner, he took on and did a wonderful job as a leader of the black press of America, he served a term as the chairman of the national newspaper publishers association. And in that position was able to afford negotiations that were substantial and meaningful. And I'm sure you were proud of that as well to black newspapers,
Speaker 1 00:43:39.3100000 Every chance I could. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:43:41.3800000 So what do you see as the future for, for the black press of America for black newspapers, uh, black radio, black television, uh, and then, uh, how do we also, uh, connect in the social media space? The challenge for us often is that the market is saying, Oh, Prentice dead. Uh, and that everybody's going digital now, but we don't own digital. We operate in the space, but we're not the owners of the platforms to my knowledge. Uh, we own the newspapers. We have, we own the radio stations. The question is what is the future of equity and growth and wealth creation in, uh, black media for owners of black media and, and our descendants people that we're going to leave our businesses to as we retire. That's question one. The second question is how do you see us being able to, uh, create a new stability, a new sustainability by connecting with black people on a global level of the playing field has changed. And right now, when you and I grew up, uh, Joe, uh, our parents told us that, uh, you know, don't go out of our neighborhood, right? Uh, now the whole world is our neighborhood. That's what I think. And so we have a chance to connect with our people in Africa, Caribbean, South America, even in Europe and in Asia, what do you think the future lies? What's the pathway for sustainability and for actual fulfillment of the vision, the mission, the possibility of creator creativity in our community?
Speaker 1 00:45:23.3300000 Well, there's a lot there. And, and I, I say with as much will and volition as I can, that the media is a critical part of the solution. I think that, uh, black newspapers can do a much better job of consolidating and creating an electronic footprint so that black people around the country in the world can get their media from one source. I know one of the things that Danny and I worked on was the ability to create a electronic media, uh, platform that unfortunately wasn't, uh, fully sustainable back in the few years we started working on it, but that's one of the key elements. And I also believe that there's a remarkable opportunity for black radio stations and magazines to also coexist. And remember that our customers are the critical people, men and women who reside in communities. And I think the social media piece of it can help us stay connected. One of the reasons I sold my company to a guy who was connected to technology and media was that that was the future. And I still think that that is a critical component for us learning more about how to connect our messages and our bets around the world, as well as in community to community technology is a critical component.
Speaker 0 00:47:05.3899999 Are you doing business internationally? Did you get a chance to do stuff either in the Caribbean or in Africa or in Europe, or was your one?
Speaker 1 00:47:12.3800000 Yes, I did. I did some business in China, as well as in on the Caribbean. I was able to win a competition for helping black, a black festival there in occur. And, uh, it worked out very well. I'm very happy with how successful we were.
Speaker 0 00:47:37.7100000 So the future, what do you see? Um, future wise? Um, Oh, here, here's other thing I have the opinion that we have to look at the things that plague us as opportunities. And so I say that in the age of COVID-19 and beyond, we have to say that, um, uh, our health is our business. How do we monetize the creation of solutions to the problems that we experienced? How do we move beyond simply acknowledging and succumbing to the pressure of the problem, but instead take a, can do attitude that says, Hmm, a problem and opportunity. How can I make some money solving this problem? What do you think?
Speaker 1 00:48:22.4100000 Well, I got to tell you that from where I said, there's an optimistic look at what is occurring with young entrepreneurs around the world, whether it's in music or entertainment, or whether it's in fashion design or in politics, young men and women, black folks are doing a remarkable job of finding ways to monetize their pursuits. And they're, they're on a hustle. They they're trying to get it done. And I think what makes them different, maybe very different than us is that they tend to remember that they got to give back to the communities. So I think that there's always a small percentage who rise to the top and that percentage has hasn't gotten larger over the years, but I think those people in their success are beginning to show us exactly how we can grow our communities. I look at the bet, uh, award show Sunday night, and the remarkable work that Beyonce has done.
Speaker 0 00:49:30.1700000 Wasn't that amazing? That was just so powerful.
Speaker 1 00:49:32.9100000 I didn't know she had done all those things and, uh, I think she's a queen and certainly the efforts have helped other successful black men and women achieve. And as long as we give back into the communities, help people on the come up, which I believe as in my podcast is designed to do that. We'll have a greater percentage of people achieving. And then I think that what we can do is carry forward the community so that even if you're just an ordinary man or woman with her nine to five job, you have money for your family. You are able to support your children and you have good healthcare. If we can do that, then we can live in a better.
Speaker 0 00:50:24.9900000 So, so, uh, Joe muse is,
Speaker 1 00:50:28.1100000 Is what conduct possible. I don't know if condom is possible, but I can say, well, I think we have to include everybody. I don't think we can get far with just recognize the African American people. And when you do distinguish yourself as African American, how many people are not African American. And I think if we look at the streets and what has occurred over the last, uh, month and a half, there's black and white and Brown and yellow people, uh, all over who we're trying to make a difference. And I think that's where our future lies and future lies with everyone doing what we can to end the, uh, the plague of, uh, uh, violence and racial injustice. And that would be a better place for all of us to live. That's been the last few minutes, Joe, muse talking about your book again, uh, you know, the, the story of the book, uh, sure.
Speaker 1 00:51:37.7000000 That would be with me again, uh, the, the, the motivation of this piece. Well, first I like to suggest that for those who were interested in picking up the book, you can get it on Amazon or through my website, J M news.com. And the name of the book is mixed blessings. This race real, what made that novel come to life for me is that I have been studying over the years, uh, the census work and the counting of African American people. And the difference that makes in terms of our schools, our hospitals, our communities, and that the distinction of who's African American and who's not, is it's something that's been played with for hundreds of years. And I set the prospect that what race is, is a 400 year old memory, and that what we need to do is figure out how we can open up the opportunity for men who consider themselves to be black, to achieve men and women.
Speaker 1 00:52:55.7900000 And the story is about four women of different ethnic backgrounds and the men that they love in a world where race is a stigma and people are downtrodden and their children of mixed race are also, uh, uh, berated. And, uh, and in some cases killed. And the story is about how race riots and religion comes together, uh, in, in Detroit, as well as in Los Angeles and Washington DC. So the story is, uh, a provocative story about romance as well as about politics. And, um, I wrote it with a particular tongue in cheek to make it, uh, resonate for young people. I have gotten great reviews by the work, and, uh, I'm looking forward to my second book, as I said, from Holly Springs, Mississippi to Madison Avenue coming out in the fall.
Speaker 0 00:54:00.7400000 Well, the book is called it's a mixed blessing. Uh, is race real. Is there a conclusion to that question? Is, is there an answer to the question in the book?
Speaker 1 00:54:12.3500000 Well, yes, there is. It's written subtly, but, uh, it has to do with mixed race children and how their promise for us all. And, uh, as I was sharing with my wife the other day that I had three grandchildren and my grandchildren span an ethnicity of French Portuguese, Puerto Rican, uh, Cuban and African American. So they represent the fabric of America and it would be hard to not recognize how important our young people are and how much Rick miss race mixed rich children are.
Speaker 0 00:54:54.4100000 Sure. Okay. Well, listen, I want to thank you so much for taking time to talk with us here, uh, at conversations with Al McFarlane and such a pleasure to meet you, to hear your story and to share your voice and your story and your vision with our community. And I want to wish you continued success, any closing, uh, uh,
Speaker 1 00:55:13.9100000 Remember they can pick the book up on Amazon and Barnes and noble and my website J in muse in usc.com.
Speaker 0 00:55:23.2000000 Did you want me? It was, thank you so much, brother. We'll see, we'll see you next time. I'm Al McFarlane. This is conversations with Alma Carlin st. Tone lady JS next and join us again next week for conversations with Alan McFarlane. We'll see you. All right.
