Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00 KPI
Speaker 1 00:04 I'm Al McFarlane. Welcome to a, another edition of conversations with Alan, the Kirtland I'm pleased to have today. Commissioner John Harrington, commissioner of the department,
Speaker 2 00:14 Public safety commissioner. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for all the work you're doing. Uh, wanted to use this time to give you, uh, have you give us an update from your position on the, uh, challenges of, uh, creating, um, uh, not law and order, but peace restoring peace in our community, in the wake of the, um, protests surrounding the shooting death of, uh, mr. Uh, George Floyd. So good morning. First of all,
Speaker 3 00:46 I do appreciate the opportunity. It's always good to see you. It's always good to get a chance to visit with you. I don't get to do it as often as I should. I do appreciate the opportunity to talk about this. Uh, it has been a, it has been a pivot from COVID, which I think the last time we talked that was, we were talking about COVID and the influx of that into the black community. Um, it's a little over a week ago now when, uh, George Lloyd was killed by the Minneapolis police department by an officer and now X officers in Minneapolis police department, um, the next day or so after that, uh, there were demonstrations, um, 38th in Chicago where it actually happened and, and, and there were demonstrations and clearly the community was rightfully, uh, and justly upset, horrified ticked off. And there's some other words I would say, but we're, uh, we're, we're gonna keep this, keep this piece PG at this point.
Speaker 3 01:41 Um, we watched that and the state, uh, offered to help, uh, the city of Minneapolis, cause this was where the, this was where ground zero was. So we reached out to the city of Minneapolis and the chief police over there to say, do you need additional assets? And the answer in conversations with Redondo was, yes, we need additional assets. Uh, we, at the same time that that was happening on the political side, uh, mayor fry was reaching out to governor walls, uh, and governor Wallace, uh, instructed me to put together a, uh, a, an approach, a plan that would, uh, stop the violence, uh, stop the, the riots, uh, and to restore peace. And that, and that mission has, um, has morphed a little bit over the last few days. But initially our mission was quite literally bring in the national guard because we were concerned about what we thought were going to be, uh, additional riots later on in the week.
Speaker 3 02:41 Uh, but the riots never stopped in those first few days. And we saw, I think we're at 90, almost 90 buildings burned, uh, up our sins. Uh, we saw rooting of, uh, mom and pop grocery stores, little pharmacies, big pharmacies, grocery stores. Uh, we saw the, the Lake street area turned into basically a food desert as all of the places where people would get their basic sustenance, uh, were, uh, were broken into either burned and or alluded and could not operate anymore in that context. So we put together a team. And so what we do that we did here is we pulled together what we call it, a map, which is a multi-agency coordinating center. And the D part of public safety's role in this is the coordination. Um, we don't really have, we don't have a state police in the state of Minnesota. A lot of people think we do, but we have state troopers that are assigned to the highways.
Speaker 3 03:32 And we have BCH has to do investigations upon requests from other agencies, but there is no state police per se. So we pulled up, pulled together. This multi-agency coordinating center. Uh, our staff is running that center jointly with the Minnesota national guard and with Minneapolis and st. Paul and federal authorities were there with us, uh, County authorities, Henry County, sheriff, uh, uh, Dave Hutchinson County authority for all over the Metro area. Uh, James Stewart from, uh, NOCCA County has been there. Chiefs of police from Bloomington, uh, from every place else has been at the Mac. Is it a virtual site, or is there an actual physical command center we've had to have this needed to be someplace where you could walk across the room and say, I need 15 more cops to guard Henry County medical center. We're hearing something we couldn't deal with the lag time of virtual.
Speaker 3 04:26 So yeah, we've actually found a location that we have stayed at that place and that's worked out well for us, has been given as a hub of activity there. And initially what we did was we pulled in the national guard and the state troopers. So just almost literally every Minnesota state trooper was pulled into the Minneapolis st. Paul area to assist with stopping the violence, uh, general, uh, John Jensen, who was the edge in general, the national guard pulled in initially a couple of thousand national guard folks, which is not. I want people to understand, I think some folks think you just, you snap your finger and then they are here. Uh, you, these are citizens shoulders. These are guys that were carpenters on, on Monday. They were bankers on Tuesday. They were plumbers and electricians who got a call and said, suit up report to your Fort, get your gear, come down to the cities and be prepared to stay here for as long as we tell you, you have to stay here.
Speaker 3 05:20 And that, and that happened really so fast. It was amazing to watch the trucks of national guard folks coming in to try and help out. Um, and he built that for us from 2000 initially up to about 6,000, a little over almost 7,000 people there. Uh, we took a tactical approach to trying to figure out how could we stop the violence? We had some success. Um, one of the nights, I think it was a Wednesday night. We were able to successfully, uh, clear Lake street out and allow Minneapolis's fire department to respond to the fires in a much more real time basis. Uh, the next night we frankly didn't do as well. We had what we would estimate as 10,000 people out on the street that didn't really appear to be protestors. And I do distinguish between those folks that are out because they want to mourn George Floyd's death, or who wants to speak truth to power about police brutality and racism.
Speaker 3 06:16 But we had 10,000 people that wanted to throw rocks and Molotov cocktails and who fired on police and national guard with firearms. And that was a number that we were, frankly, uh, we were not prepared to respond to effectively. We were able to keep them from burning down another precinct. And there was an attempt to burn down, uh, multiple precincts that were attacks on precincts of our Minneapolis. We were able to keep that from happening after we had seen the third precinct burned to the ground the, the day before, uh, we were able to do that, but we recognize that that tactical approach was not sufficient. And we changed our approach to being a fast mobile, um, sort of, if you want to use a military metaphor, we became light infantry. You know, before we were this, we were this low end goal. Uh, we were going to hold the line and that really wasn't effective with a group of people that when, as soon as you moved up on them, they simply ghosted on you.
Speaker 3 07:15 They disappeared back into the neighborhood. They ran into the dark. And once again, I think people have to understand the difference between the state patrol and then, and the DNR national resources, national guard. Most of us are not Minneapolis folks, right? No. So, so when somebody starts running into South Minneapolis, first of all, it's tactically not safe to send people running after them. And secondly, we don't really know the terrain at all, and it was mostly done under the cover of darkness. So moving Minneapolis into a much more integrated position with that has really strengthened our position. And we've been able to move quickly. One of the other things that helped us with that was the curfew. We asked the governor to issue a curfew. He issued one for the first two days he's issued for another two days. I will tell you that I am recommending he issue a curfew for the next two days.
Speaker 3 08:07 Also, the curfew really worked very well. Initially. It was from eight to six. The last two days has been from 10 o'clock at night, till four o'clock in the morning. And it has allowed us to be able to keep good people safe, which is our primary mission of the department of public safety and be able to, to interact with the folks that want to cause harm, which is also part of that law enforcement mission of being a peacekeeper is being a peace officer doesn't mean that you don't ever put people in jail. Um, but I want to put the right people in jail. I want to put the people that have a mild, soft cocktail in their back pocket. That's the guy I want to put. And I want to put the guy that's coming to the, coming to a demonstration with a backpack full of rocks and steel ball to shoot at cops and shoot into the crowd.
Speaker 3 08:51 I want to put that person in jail and that's what we've been able to do with the curfew. And so, uh, we are, we've had two good days knock on wood. I'm not going to use any other term for it. I think we've had, uh, we've had some civil disobedience, but it has been very peaceful. It has been people who have had wanted to make sure that their there, their voices were still being heard. And we have been respectfully working with them, uh, as we made those risks, uh, in the same time we have taken a bunch of guns off the street. We've taken a bunch of em, a bunch of phlegm, Flint, uh, flammable objects, bottles of gasoline and things that we're finding that have been cashed around the cities. Uh, we've been tracing down stories and rumors about where people are gathering. Uh, and we continue to keep working towards keeping the peace, because that is the mission that governor Wallace gave me was to put together a group that could keep restore the peace in Minneapolis, stop the violence. And now our mission is to main maintain the peace for the citizens of Minneapolis and the twin cities. We have been involved, Minneapolis st. Paul and the surrounding suburbs. Also,
Speaker 2 09:56 I talked to, um, one of the block club leaders in North Minneapolis. His name is John Jamieson, Northside residence, three development council. He called both as a neighbor. And then I had him on this show yesterday talking about the fact that neighbors in the Willard Homewood neighborhood, where I live new lives and have been increasingly concerned about finding, uh, either canisters of flammable liquid, or as you said, rocks in their backyards. And that on our block of Upton a night before last, there was a, uh, car torched, uh, James Trice, who might join us in a few minutes because with the public policy project lives in South Minneapolis and said the same thing that underground in the neighborhood neighbors are, are the good thing is they're meeting more and talking more, but they're discovering that they have an obligation and a responsibility to be aware and to be watchful and to be protective of their space and of each other. But they're finding objects, hidden stash in backyards that they didn't put there. And so, so the question is, you said 10,000 people throwing rocks. Is it that many really? Or is it among the 10 thousands that came out for whatever reason, there were many that were prepared to escalate the disobedience from that to, to violence. What do you think?
Speaker 3 11:19 I'd say it's closer to being on, on what, on that given night, we had good estimates of about 5,000 people around the fifth precinct. How many of them were what we would describe as the rioters? It's hard to say, but we were working. You can't really pinpoint that in a crowd of 5,000, we had about a thousand in downtown Minneapolis, and then we had about 2,500 to 3000 over on Lake street. And so one of the questions that we've been asking is, is because we were not able to arrest all of them. Obviously, if you move them along, did we simply move a crowd from the fifth precinct to South Minneapolis on the Lake street side down closer to, to Bloomington, uh, did the crowd, that was the thousand that was in downtown Minneapolis become the 500 that were on 35, w that tried to, that broke into a, a ups truck as it was driving down the road.
Speaker 3 12:17 So it's, it's a bit hard to be able to say whether it's 10,000 total or were there several thousand that were moving about that we had to interact with. Uh, but at, at, at a, at a point certain in time, uh, we were counting groups in all four places simultaneously. So, uh, it may not be 10,000, but it's certainly not just a handful, either. A lot of people, I do want to say one more thing on your, on the fire piece, which is one of the, because we got so many of those stories, uh, and because we started actually having neighbors call us on that, and we really appreciate the neighbors calling us, or that we have put together a taskforce, which is headed up by ATF, the alcohol tobacco firearms people, because some of these are in fact bombs and bombs in the making.
Speaker 3 13:04 We've had the Minneapolis fire departments are sending investigator. The st. Paul fire departments are as an investigator and the state fire Marshall out of my office now coordinating a task force to investigate the 90 plus our sins. And in addition to go out and collect as much of that material so that we can do forensic evidence collection on that, uh, you know, maybe they maybe that maybe they were smart and they use, you know, use, did they cleaned up their mess, but I've, I've arrested a lot of dumb criminals over my lifetime. Uh, I'm hoping that there's a few dumb criminals that were doing this. They left me some, left me some physical evidence that I can tie this together. Uh, and so we want people to call and I'm working on it. I wish I had it right now. We're working on a hotline number for folks to call the fire department. If at this point in the absence of that called the nine number, non emergency number in your community. And we will make sure that someone comes in, picks up the material and that we get reports on this, because we think that's one of the important things we're taking the weapons out of the rioters hands that they have put there so that when the, when they get an opportunity, they don't have to go and get stuff it's important for us to prevent them from rearming is one of the things that we're doing with this taskforce.
Speaker 2 14:17 There were stories of people when, you know, black outfits, black suits and caps and umbrellas and backpacks with either rocks or incendiary devices. When we saw them on the videos, uh, they're actually breaking down the windows. And the senses from watching on the video is you've got some, uh, super intentional people, uh, doing very specific, uh, precise things to, um, penetrate a building. Uh, then you've got a bunch of kids running in and out. I watched one, a video of commissioner where some kids pulled up to a stop and shop on Lake street. I, it was, and I said, you know, this was dumb. I'm looking at their license plate and they're coming out of this place with a rack of holes and Twinkies, right. And putting it in the garage. And not only just putting it in their truck, not only putting them in the truck, but they stay there. And he's the Twinkies for half an hour, almost laughable if it wasn't so serious and deadly and Yvette. But so I don't think, well, I don't know. How do you differentiate between the wrongdoing they're doing with the people that created the opportunity and that incited and invoked, uh, you know, that, uh, that opportunity, what do you do to differentiate, or do you,
Speaker 3 15:37 We do, we do differentiate. We do recognize that, you know, when the, when the writers opened up the windows and the doors that target that at six o'clock in the morning that morning, we saw people, poor people who took advantage of an opportunity. It's still theft. We don't diminish that it was a crime, but we do recognize that that's different than the group that initiated the crime for this, for that reason. So we do differentiate the group. The other thing that we've done, I think the curfew has really helped us with that because the curfew has said to everybody, if we see you out in the hall at that stop and shop at two in the morning, we're going to stop you for being there. And the fact that they know that we're out looking at two o'clock from 10 to four in the morning or later, I think that has caused a lot of, we have seen that drop that those steps, those robberies, those leader, lootings, they have dropped every night since we put the curfew into place.
Speaker 3 16:35 So I think the curfew has helped good people make good decisions. I think it's helped some parents who might have been told by their kids have just, don't go out and check this out. And the parents can now say, you know, like my parents said, no, no, no boy, you ain't going out now, you know, you're going to get arrested for curfew violation. There's no reason for you to be out of the house. We've given parents some additional tools. Uh, and I think we've given young adults a reason to say you, it's just not worth me going out here, getting swept up in a group that I don't really want to be part of at all. So I think the curfew has helped, uh, and we do take the rest of them seriously. We are looking at the lootings and I, that's how I described them when they've been breaking into the, into the, into the Walgreens and the CVS and cleaning out the drug counter on that.
Speaker 3 17:20 We don't think that's just rant. We think that's more of an organized crime approach to stealing things under using the cover of darkness and using the cover of the craziness that we had with, with these massive protests and these riots that were going on. Um, and we're going to come after those folks, those, that organized crime component of this, that we're doing, the looting, the folks that were setting the fires were coming after those, we're going to continue to pull pool of investigatory resources into that, because that kind of, that kind of stuff can't be allowed to continue at the same time. Uh, we are planning to support those folks that want to come out and have their voices heard. Um, a fundamental part of being a cop is that you take an oath to support the constitution. Uh, the first amendment, the constitution guarantees you to right, to express yourself. Um, we are supportive of that. We are going to stand with you to make sure your voices get heard. Uh, and we're also going to make sure that the folks that come out there to do bad things, uh, who would distract from your ability to be heard, we're going to make sure that they don't have a chance to take this take over your stage.
Speaker 2 18:27 Final words for things you want the public to do. What can ordinary residents, neighbors do to support you and support themselves? How can we do our part to ensure two things really, to ensure that we are personally and neighborhoods safe, but that we also look at examine the underlying causes that have led to this eruption of, uh, emotion, uh, around the deaths of the, uh, of George, George Floyd.
Speaker 3 19:03 Well, I'd say there's two things and, and, and one is keep your eyes open. And those of you that are checking your backyards and checking your garages and checking around your cars and, and watching it for people, uh, please keep doing that and please keep calling the non-emergency number. If it, if it, you see somebody that's about to do something, we do want you to call nine 11, but the nine one one calls have really flooded the system. Pretty, pretty, pretty mate, amazingly. But we do want you to call. We do want you to look out, I I've talked to Reverend McAfee over the weekend when we were hearing reports and stuff coming up over in the North side, I knew he had a bunch of the other ministers from the community were out watching for their, about their churches and watching for their parishioners.
Speaker 3 19:43 And we appreciate that. We do want you to stay inside or on your house, on your porch or on your property. We really don't want folks out trying to play neighborhood watch patrol. Um, we think that just is, is dangerous at this point. And there isn't, there isn't a separate rule that allows for a neighborhood watch group to be walking out during the curfew, separate from any other group that would be walking around. So we really don't want that. We do want you to call. We do want you to keep your eyes open. We do want you to let us know if you see inflammable flammables, or you see cars with no license plates. That's another trend we're been seeing cars with blacked out windows, no license plates. We believe many of them were stolen. Uh, we believe many of them contain either material from looters or they contain flammables or other weapons.
Speaker 3 20:32 So we do want you to keep your eyes open for that. Um, and the last thing I will say is in regard to the most recent event, which is the Minnesota department of human rights charge against the Minneapolis police department, uh, the underlying conditions that, that set the Tinder for fire, uh, was a history of, you know, whether it's JMR or the case with <inaudible> or a new year you've been in Minneapolis longer than I have. You know, the litany of names. I don't have to repeat them for you here. Um, the department of public safety is supportive of the department of human rights has moved to here. We have talked to the chief in Minneapolis and we wreck, he recognizes and is, is positioned to lead his department from where they are now, uh, where a George Floyd could be killed on, on Facebook by his officers. And he's prepared to lead them out of that. Uh, and we're here to help him and support him as he moves at department from a department that right now is, uh, every day you see a picture of Minneapolis's patch where a murder was committed, he's ready to prepare, he's prepared and ready to lead them out of that. And into the light
Speaker 2 21:43 Elephant in the room though, commissioner is the Minneapolis police Federation, the, the union, uh, because the question it underground is who really runs the department is a pretended Crow, or is it chief, uh, Dando? Is it the mirror? And that is not said lightly because I think there is a certain element of the police department that advances, that idea that, uh, the real power is with the, uh, the union and not with the chief. How, how do we address that?
Speaker 3 22:18 I was a 40 year, 30 year union member of a police Federation, uh, uh, unions have their place. Uh, it is instructive to me that two of the biggest unions of the state of Minnesota have come out in opposition to the Minneapolis police Federation. Uh, and I believe while, while unions have their place as bargaining and protecting their, their members rights, this one has merged, has stepped out of that role into, uh, trying to lead the department. And I don't disagree that that is certainly a sentiment that is, that is widely spoken. Uh, one of the things that this action by the department of human rights, uh, brings with it is the potential for court action that will forever and a day, uh, change the dynamics of, of how that department operates. It will be court mandated action or department of human rights, mandated action, uh, that will not be subject to collective bargaining agreements in typically these are, if you think about consent decrees in LA and Baltimore and other places, uh, the federal court has simply said, you will do this.
Speaker 3 23:27 It wasn't, you will negotiate this. It was, you will do this under Sue under federal certification. And so I think that is a tool that we have never had in play before. And it's a tool that we clearly wouldn't have done lightly, but no one who is saw mr. Floyd's death can think that it is not time for a new day. It's not time for this change to happen. And I am, I am a hundred percent supportive of Redondo, uh, helping us move that department, uh, out of where it is right now and into the enlightened kind of community policing department that we all know that all know that it's the right way to do policing and the right way for policing Minneapolis,
Speaker 2 24:12 Commissioner Harrington, John Harrington. Thank you so much for your leadership, for your service, for being with us here today. I know you've got more things to do. I want to thank you for taking this time. I want to invite you back as often as you're available to update our community commissioner. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 24:27 Thank you. It's always a pleasure seeing you, and I'm looking forward to being back again, to visit with you, hopefully on unhappier topics. But until that happens, they don't normally drop me out until unless less bad things have happened. So I do appreciate you letting me get my voice out there and, uh, and helping us get the word out. Please stay home during the curfews. Please do call. Uh, if you've got experience with the Minneapolis police department that can help with discharge, please do call. Please do look around for evidence that people are planting inflammables in your neighborhood. Please keep out, watch over your neighborhood, stay with your families, stay safe and stay well.
Speaker 2 25:05 Thank you, mr. Commissioner. We'll see you later on. Thanks so much. Bye bye.
Speaker 4 25:10 Mmm, Mmm.
Speaker 3 25:17 Hey you.
Speaker 5 25:18 Yeah, you are you still living in breathing then you are in recovery from something. That's what my podcast authentic is about all things recovery I'm in recovery from an eating disorder. I'm an alcoholic. I'm a drug addict. I'm a compulsive gambler bipolar disorder. Really the list could go on and on and on. However, the show isn't about me every Friday, a new episode airs featuring a guest who shares their experience, strengthened hope as it pertains to what they are in recovery from. If we help one person, then we have done our job guests on authentic smash stigma, share solutions and provide my favorite four letter word. Hope you can listen to authentic on kfa.org or whatever podcast platform you use. Remember be good to yourselves.
Speaker 2 26:07 Well, I'm a L McFarlane, and this is a special edition of conversations with them in Fargo. And our thanks to commissioner of the department of public safety commissioner, John Harrington, John Harrington, former, uh, police chief of st. Paul, a former, uh, Senator representing, uh, district 65, I believe in st. Paul, uh, and, uh, uh, former head of the Metro transit police. So he's totally and thoroughly, uh, aware of both policy, uh, theory and practical practice in police work in Minnesota. And, uh, the man that the governor has to lead the state's initiative, uh, in law enforcement to support, uh, the, uh, March towards justice, the upholding of justice, not only in the case of the, uh, deaths of George Floyd, but in the aftermath, the public response and the, uh, rebellions, uprisings riots, uh, different ways to characterize those depending on where you are. And depending on what part you're looking at, I want to continue the conversation by bringing two other voices that are important.
Speaker 2 27:18 Uh, my colleagues and friends, uh, James Trice, Dane strikes has the public policy project, uh, does a lot of work discussing, uh, how we arrive at public policy that serves community, serves our interests and helps build equity and, um, uh, brother, uh, Terrelle, uh, uh, thank you for joining us, uh, to, uh, Justin thrill is the head of the council of Minnesota is of African heritage. You've seen him on TV the past several days, uh, brother Tarell, great job. Uh, you've been clear, passionate and forthright and forceful, and your analysis and your statement of expectation of how we must move forward in the community. Uh, you guys jumped in late, but you might've caught a little bit of what, uh, commissioner Harrington was saying. I'm gonna start with you, uh, James Trice, uh, first impressions, top of mind, thoughts about what's going on and how our state and how we as community are responding and need to respond.
Speaker 6 28:23 Well, thank you very much, Rebecca, thank you for the work that you do with the insight news and really, um, helping our community get the accurate reporting of issues that happened in our community. Uh, many times the mainstream media, uh, doesn't cover it, not cover us the way we need to be covered in your, your, you do that with, with insight and what your program. So I want to thank you so much for all the work that you do and, and, and just wish you continued success and, and we will continue to support your work. Also, let me just say, what's up too, brother, Justin, man, we haven't talked in a while, um, but I am always impressed by the work you do, man, and you, you, you're doing a wonderful, wonderful job over there at the council. And, um, even though you may not hear from me every day, did I, I really, um, I really appreciate the work that you do, man, ever.
Speaker 6 29:11 You put in to make sure that policy that are, uh, move at the legislature, you are at the forefront of making ensure that those, um, that are passed don't adversely affect communities of color, particularly African and African American communities. And, uh, and to make sure I was just heard there at the legislature. So thank you very much for the work you do. Let me say this out. I think that we are, um, you know, I, the at moment for police brutality in our communities happen when the Rodney King, uh, would be, and when you do, I say that, because that was the first time that a, you know, an abuse of bipolar on black people was videotape, right. Which was recorded and widely distributed worldwide for the world to see exactly how police treat them. Right. And it was like, wow, this is real. Because prior to that, we haven't had that, you know, we know what happened in Dallas is not new, right?
Speaker 6 30:14 So let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that is, it's not new and it's always been going on. And the issue is this. I, I just found to believe that if had not been for the recording of George Floyd murder, we probably would have heard this on the news that, Oh, you know, a black man got raped up on 38th and Nicholas 30th in Chicago cut foods. There's a place for all kinds of riff Raff, whatever it is. Right. And that, you know, we had to take, we had to kill his brother and nothing else would have been said that would have been reported. Right. Uh, you know, so because it was captured on video and now for the world to see people like this is real, but we said it was real. Then when Rodney King was brutally beaten by those cops in California, um, what ensued after that?
Speaker 6 30:59 Right? The verdict of not guilty, which everybody saw, like, I think, you know, I was like dumbfounded when, when I, when I saw that at first, I said, Hey, wow, that's why we caught it. Now. This is I'm going to see, but people go to jail. I mean, cause you know, I can hear escape this BT. I mean, this was real. And when they, when, when they said not guilty, I mean it w w w w uh, the, the riots, I would say, I didn't want to call them rights. Right. I called them uprising. That happened after that. Uh, what, what I heard was reports saying that that was the, uh, the worst, uh, rebel, you know, uprising riots. That's what they called it right in history. Right. This, I think pale in comparison to that, because I think now the rest of the world is joining dots around other countries are looking at this saying, this is, this is crazy.
Speaker 6 31:48 This is how America's treating black folk. And I think, no, I don't believe there's a nation on earth that doesn't see, uh, that there, that black people will face hell in this country. Right. And, and so let me just say that. And I also want to say this, and I, and I don't want to, I would be remiss not to send my thoughts and prayers to the family of George Floyd and say, you know, we with y'all, we're going to be standing with you. Our prayers are with you. We're standing in solidarity with you. And, you know, we, we wish you the best. And if there's anything that we can do, and I'm sure people are stepping up, the Floyd Mayweather is stepping up, he's going to pay for the pay for the Memorial services for the family. Uh, other, uh, um, politicians are stepping up or when I say celebrities and athletes are stepping up really to support the family.
Speaker 6 32:34 This is, this is just wonderful for me to see. And also, let me just say this, right. It is wonderful for me to see the protests, the uprising, right. That's what I call them, right. That are happening all over this country. Right? Sure. We've got people who are looting and all of that that's happening, but I don't want that to overshadow the fact that we have, uh, we have unified uprisings around the country, uh, against the system of oppression that has happened far, far too long. I don't even think it's ceased. I think it's been happening since slavery, Jim Crow. And then we talk about the, uh, you know, the, the black wall street. Are we thinking about the Tulsa Bernie's we can go on and on and on and on and on. And this has to end, right? The question is, what, what is it going take?
Speaker 6 33:23 Right. You know, I, I I'm, I'm, I'm just say this. If you know these officers, I think they're going to get charged. I don't know what the charge is gonna be. I think that's going to happen. I think it's going to go to court, right? It's going to be tried if they, unless they plead guilty and then it's done. But if nothing significant happens to these guys, this carpet is going to blow up. I'm still going to say that it's going to be hell and I, and I, I would hate to, you know, I it's going to be crazy. And, but, but, so I hope it doesn't get to that. I hope my hope is that these individuals are charged, tried, and convicted and are punished for what they did, not just officer trauma, but also the other three officers involved. They were complicit in this.
Speaker 6 34:11 I call it, uh, I call it the lynching, um, further out it wasn't lynching, uh, the killing a mall, Aubrey in Georgia. That was a lynching. And I think that they've been lynching us. I mean, you know, you're just going way back to slavery. These have been lynchings and we, and it's nothing short of that. And, and I don't know if the police law enforcement had the capability to change him because you know, people talk about, uh, maybe it's training, maybe it's recruitment. Well, I don't see black officers abusing white people in the same way. Right. I don't see white officers treating white citizens the same way. So it's not the training. I don't think it's that I think have ingrained within law enforcement to view black people as less than human. And, uh, you know, that we're, we're not worthy of respect. Uh, I mean, it takes a dress out and I'm saying this on my shit I'm done.
Speaker 6 35:11 And the kids were dressed up, right? William J chief justice, William Tandy said in that case that blacks have no rights that white are bound to respect. This is what he said, blacks and whites, whites are bound to respect. He said, black arm and a theory or origin that we're inferior. And that they have no rights that the blacks on the right, the whites are bound respect. And I think that sentiment is still here. There's been no statement that I've injustice. You can help me with this. There's been no statement to, uh, uh, to condemn, uh, or to, uh, or to contradict that statement made by chief justice Tenney. And I think it permeates all the society, not just law enforcement. I think it's, I think it's the economic system. I think it's social system, I think, embedded and woven within the fabric of America, that blacks are inferior and that they have no rights to wipe the bound of respect for that white woman in, in, in, in central park. She, I mean, she knew, I mean, she knows that it's inferior. She knew that she would call the police. They're going to come either beat this Negro, but, or kill him. Why? Because he asked her to get you, please put a leash on your dog. No Negro. You can't tell me what to do. I don't need to respect what you said. And I want to make sure that you speaking to me this way that you suffer some kind of consequence,
Speaker 7 36:32 Justin, just jump in. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, I actually think it's really James it's, first of all, it's great to see you brother. And, um, I see Calvin's on the line too, so it's good to see him. Um, Alicia, I see, uh, I, James, you bring up a good point and I always just keep reminding folks at the lead up to what happened at George Floyd was, you know, we had a sister who got a house broken into with the SWAT team and shot 20 times, and we got the brothers running in the street. And that was an old case that just hadn't been prosecuted yet. Right. Because, because it folks who committed the crime were so booed up with the system. And then before then he got this, the white lady in the park. I mean, it's just insane. It's like we expect, you know, we really want to get through hard times without, without having to worry about these things like this.
Speaker 7 37:21 And I don't know why we forget that any day. I mean, we could, before this thing is resolved, we could have another, uh, an R and D black man in the street, in the city, in this nation. And I just wonder, like how long are people going to be able to tolerate that and just accept that as the norm. And I just personally, like, I can't accept that as the norm. The other thing I would say, James, that you, um, that you, uh, that you mentioned, you talked about lynchings. I mean, my grandmother told me the story of her uncle, uh, in Dom box Texas, uh, who would have been, would have been friends with this white family. And when their, when their kid had turned 13, um, they said, you got, you gotta call a little Billy or whatever his name was. You got to start calling him, sir.
Speaker 7 38:03 And he was like, man, I gotta that boys diapers, icon I'm. So, you know, Southern black man, man, he didn't make it home. My grandmother's family found him hanging from a tree for a birthday party. And it just shows you like the legacy of lynching and how little they value our lives. And in a lot of ways, we are still entertainment for these folks, violence against our people is still entertainment for these folks. That's why you got white supremacists coming to Minneapolis, but bottles full of whatever and threatening folks and chasing and burn it down mr. Afros, and trying to, you know, just incite violence in our, and that's why it's great to see folks like McAfee folks like Jamil Jackson, spike all these brothers out here, sisters out here, Lisa Clemons is putting in work, uh, hours putting a work. It's great to see folks out in the community, Leslie Baidu salute, and just doing a great job of protecting our community right now.
Speaker 7 38:55 And so that's the one thing that I think is coming out of this is that because we know the threat to our community, we understand it completely. And, uh, and right now what you're seeing is just the community coming together to demand that we protect ourselves, that we, that we, that we, that we do that. And I hope that that continues to build. I hope black folks start playing more gardens. I hope I post start learning self-defense because this is going to be a long, it's going to be a long fight and I'll be, and I'll say this, and I'll be quiet. You know, we've, we've made a lot of progress this week. You know, you know, we arrested the officer, we, um, we, we did the civil rights, uh, civil rights investigation. We're gonna look at the 10 years of the MPDs misconduct and open the books and examine that some people think that we're attacking Rondo and that's not.
Speaker 7 39:42 I salute Rondo, I think is a leader that we need. I'd love the fact that he's got black men and women in leadership in that department is the reason that things are worse. And so, you know, this is not an attack against Rondo. Rondo has not been police chief for 10 years. And so going back and opening up the books to look at what's been done, what patterns of behavior discrimination and what kind of civil rights violations, finally, a black person that doesn't want to know the full story by a black person. Where's that come from? Yeah. So, so once again, my role is advisory. So I need people to understand that, like I'm not calling any shots here, but what I am doing is advising the governor out on opportunities. And so where it came from is a concern about the FBI investigation, the FBI investigation, you know, at first I, I assumed it'd be, it's a civil rights investigation, but what it's turning out to be is to be more looking at criminal conduct.
Speaker 7 40:37 And I don't, and that's not a fact that I'm reporting on, it's just, that's what I've heard. And so looking into that, we started to investigate, um, we started to investigate alternatives, the FBI investigation. So if you remember what happened after the African, the aftermath of Freddy bell and Michael Brown and some of these other national cases, you know, back then, you know, uh, uh, th the AIG for the, um, the federal government stepped in and did consent agreements with all those departments, right? And we started getting 21st century policing. When does he get bomb administration? That things were moving well, we don't have that today. We don't have the interest of the federal government. At least they haven't communicated that they're interested in doing a consent agreement with the Minneapolis police department. And so what you would get is cost lock these guys up, you lock them.
Speaker 7 41:22 And hopefully that, that happens. I got faith in key, and he'd be, and frankly, like I got, I got faith in Keith, but the community needs to hold Keith accountable. He got, he has to get it right. And so the reason for the civil rights investigation from the state is because we knew that we had to go beyond just prosecuting these officers. We have to open up the books, we got to get the full story. And we got to make sure that the community knows what patterns of behavior have been, have been having going on in his department. Cause if reality is the community already does know, but there's no proof to back it up. So this is a strategy to validate what our community has been telling us and to hopefully put some structural reforms in place to transform the culture of the, of the, of the MPD, which is where Mondo is
Speaker 2 42:08 Put forward by the council or by the human rights commissioner or by the community.
Speaker 7 42:14 So I would say specific proposal, I would say about that specific proposal was a combination of all three. So we work very closely with the governor's office and with commissioner Juicero. Um, and so I know that this is something that she wanted to look into right away. You know, I consulted some of our black legislators, I could solve to some folks in the community. Um, also consulted people who started, who were, who were we're up against this. James brought up my bikini. I can solve to the folk that black led organizers who came into play during the Rodney King uprising. So like, I feel like, you know, I did my due diligence reaching out to folks that might shock out as diverse possibilities and, um, opinions on this. And then I submitted my advice to the government and keep in mind, I don't work for the governor. I am an advisor. They could take it or leave it right now. I'm really thankful that they're taking it because I think this governor wants to respond to it.
Speaker 2 43:06 What does it mean in terms of public policy, James Trice? One of the things that commissioner Harrington said was that the unique opportunity at hand here is that, uh, what can come from this action, uh, becomes, or can be a force of law legislation, specific income and legislation and new policies based on that or policies that are not subject to negotiation with the police union. And I said, that asked that question and he responded based on my, um, uh, saying that, uh, on the street people question who really calls the shots in the Minneapolis police department. And, uh, you know, of course chief Redondo is the chief, of course the mirror, uh, is, uh, you know, in charge, but on the street and the police don't discourage it. There's a sense that the real power is with the head of the union. It used to be Sergeant Delmonico.
Speaker 2 44:11 Now it's Lieutenant Crow, and these guys would walk around, puffed up, puffed out, you know, and giving you the impression that they really are the shot callers, not the chief, not the mirror and that if they don't do it or don't stand for it, it won't happen. So they kind of, uh, present that puffery, uh, that idea that they are, uh, unassailable and that, uh, because of them officers can do anything to anybody and do it with impunity. Uh, so what does that mean in terms of public policy? Now, this is a real opportunity is what she, uh, commissioner Harrington was saying, uh, rather Trice.
Speaker 6 44:53 Yeah, I think it's so right. I think they, they, they do walk around with that, uh, that assumption of power because they've been given it right. Uh, the, you know, uh, Mike Freeman, he he's no, none of us trust Mike Freeman, this should be clear about this. And, and w you know, in that press conference that he did on the outside of the, I think it was the federal building. And he mentioned that he prosecutes successfully prosecuted a police officer for killing a citizen. Well, hell it was the only black police officer, the only officers to be prosecuted under his watch. And he was black. Right. And it's like, come on. Y'all really, but yeah, let's, let's go back to this point, right? Police Federation run this, let's just make no bones about it. And Keith is walking lightly because he clearly understands this, uh, Kroll had called Keith a terrorist and some meetings he had dumped keep the terrorists.
Speaker 6 45:49 Why keep elephant? He's a Muslim. So kit is walking on, on, on, on really tender ground here. And he has to be careful because they're going to come at him with all the forces to bear. So when we talk about public policy, I think we need to re remove the power that they have, the power that, that, uh, unions have over law. The power that they have should not supersede law, should not supersede what needs to happen when officers, when they, when they killed citizens. Uh, and so w w what pauses give me bad. Right. I, first of all, I think, I think we were on the right path with trying to get officers to have their own insurance. Right. I think that's one policy that can happen one positive that I have been trying to move. And I've gotten some attention from some of the legislators are a drug test, a police officer that immediately when a police officer does something like this, that each one of the officers get detected, right. Because, you know, law enforcement is one of the, uh, one of the, uh, uh, professions that have the highest drug and alcohol abuse of any kind of profession right there, along with doctors that they firefighters and then some others, but they were at the top. And to suggest that these officers are not off, you're hyped up on something, it is, you know, we'll be, we'll be deceived. We deceive ourselves into thinking that that's what's happening. So I think that needs to happen,
Speaker 2 47:15 Especially when the narrative is that the victim here might've had some kind of chemical in his body, right. Why shouldn't we raise the question, whether the officer's that chemicals in their body. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 47:28 Exactly. Because they automatically, I mean, they would try it. That's why to say that he had blood, a meth and fentanyl, fentanyl in his system as, as contributing factors. Well, what do you have in your system? Because let's be honest, they work a highly stressful job, right? It is highly stressful. Now you couple that with this perception that black people are a threat, that we are dangerous, particularly the black male is dangerous and that he's a problem. And that they're going to have to come with all the forces to bear, to take this brother down. Right. And, and, and they come, and then they're afraid of that. And so that heightened it. And so then you add drugs to that. I mean, I've talked to a police, officer's wives, wives whose always used to tell me that their husband hype them when something, when they leave home and go and check in, I popped the people at my caucus. If I go to my car, cause all the time trying to push this and people supporting them, I've talked to wives of police officers. And that's why the police officers that, that confirmed with me, that their husbands go out there and they're there they're high on something, whether it's meth or whether it's something that they're hot. Why aren't they also test it to see, is it a contributing factor of why you killed his brother weed because you were hot? So that's, that's another thing, right. Um,
Speaker 2 48:47 Uh, go ahead. Somebody else's Alicia Smith is on. Yes. I hope you're hearing some of the conversation and sorry to interrupt you. I brought the trace, but I didn't want to lose Alicia here. Uh, you know, give me an idea of where you are right now, Alicia and where things are from your point of view, what the newest news is that you're reacting to in community.
Speaker 8 49:10 Um, so right now I'm on 38 there in Chicago, um, where I've been between 38 and like a mini has where I spend most of my day. And I'm, we're just opening up the grocery store, the pop up grocery store. And so we're getting, um, we're getting geared up for that. Um,
Speaker 2 49:30 Where, where is the popup grocery store? Where is it? Who's opening it
Speaker 8 49:35 Doing well? So we have a, we have one here on, up on 38th and Chicago, if one on like a mini high high, and then we have one also on, well, we have one open on 66 in Richfield. Well, we had a bunch of families. The couples was vandalized up that way. And so,
Speaker 2 49:53 So that was the pop up bookie for work. Is it outdoors? Number one. And can anybody come up and either buy stuff or you're giving stuff out? What's the operation.
Speaker 8 50:03 Yeah. So it's absolutely free. It's outdoors. We were outside and anyone can come. Anyone that lives in the neighborhood, we're not ID and folks, we're not asking for money. Everything is absolutely free. It's from generous donors that we have and community members that have reached out to give their support in light of the fact that we've lost all of our places to go buy fresh groceries right now. And so it's set up, it's gonna literally be set up like a grocery store. There will be tables full of products. Food non-perishables will be outside the cold and perishable items will be inside refrigerated, um, for neighbors and community, to be able to come through and pick up what they need.
Speaker 2 50:50 What are you hearing in evenings now over in your neighborhood over South? Um, things are quieting down now and how how's the neighborhood separating out if it is the activities of the protesters that are peaceful and those things that seem to have another agenda.
Speaker 8 51:12 So it's a quiet, fairly quiet. Uh, it's still a lot of, um, folks are hiding their sense of fear. There are a great deal of concerns around safety. From the neighborhood perspective in, in all of the neighborhoods, there are still lots of, um, people creeping around. And then we hours of the night, um, that put people at a sense of uncertainty. We've had some random, like vandalism to a personal property and to people's homes and their cars in their neighborhood. But for the most part, everything has been peaceful. Um, in the residential side of it, um, just people are afraid. People are unsure about what those who had intentions to destroy. If they plan to hang around and damage their neighborhoods, or if they're damaged sort of this over now, that's the destruction of the buildings
Speaker 2 52:11 Is your sense, Felicia, that the damage was caused by our sons and daughters, our neighbors, our friends, or was the damage done, uh, by, uh, people that really we don't know and who we would say are not part of our community, because I can see it where sometimes in my neighborhood, people are so mad, they figure they need to pick up a brick and throw it, you know, which is not the right thing to do, but it happens. So the question is in South Minneapolis is your sense that much of this is just ordinary people fed up or is a lot of it also people that have another agenda. That's what I'm hearing that there is an organized strategic agenda to destroy and to discredit the peaceful protest. But what do you think?
Speaker 8 53:02 I think absolutely. Mr. McFarland, you're right on port point there. That is pretty much the sentiment. When I talked to, I probably talked to close to 10,000 people over the last seven days around their, their security and safety and the perception of who's doing it and the reality of who's doing it. So a lot of these folks we've, we've been able to actually talk to and encouraged them to, if you're here for destruction, there are families that live in these communities. Most importantly, there are small children that don't need to be further traumatized by the violence that are perpetuated in the so-called honor of George Floyd and many others like him that have been victimized or brutalized by the police all across this country that live in black bodies. And so I think the community is absolutely, uh, on edge. And they're aware of that. Many of these folks are outside agitators, right?
Speaker 8 53:55 Like the goal was to incite fear and to destroy, and they were successful at all of those things. They're there has absolutely played this absolute devastation over here. It is like if you've ever had an opportunity to visit a war, torn country, partial buildings, rebel everywhere, nothing, you know, people wondering sort of aimlessly, trying to figure out how do we move forward and pick up the pieces from here. And how do we rebuild in a place where, you know, the reality of gentrification was already happening and not the gentrification, I just improved your neighborhood, but the kind that's going to price a lot of folks out of here when these, when these businesses or these developers decide, Hey, now this land that I couldn't get ahold of before, it's prime for picking out that it's down the rebel, how do I come in? And I'll build, you know, a five story condo building and price out the average outsider who can't afford to pay 15 to $1,700 for a one bedroom apartment.
Speaker 8 54:58 How do we do that? And so that's something that we're dealing with and addressing that's one of the longer term game plan strategies that we have to talk about. But then we have to talk about the reality of like, once this is, you know, sort of the, the, the fat and the sexiness of what's going on with the movement is over for people. Right? Cause this is, let's be clear that right now, all these folks they're in this moment of trend, right. They claim to be here, but we know that this is a long bike and it is not going to be over in 30 days. We're talking, it may be a year from now. So we're going to,
Speaker 7 55:35 Yeah. I'm sorry to jump in. I gotta, I gotta take off, but, um, I would just say Elisa, like thank you for being out there in the community. Like we see you and we see what y'all are doing. I was out there this morning with Angela Connolly. You know, I just it's. No, it is, it is not lost on me that this, that, that, you know, we got black men in the streets taking care of the community and we got black women in the streets taking care of the community. Like we are showing up like family right now. And I just want to let you know,
Speaker 1 56:06 And I appreciate you. Um, I gotta go, uh, Jan, let's talk some more, let's talk some more policy and stuff. I want to you to stay connected to me cause can keep giving to the community and update. Thank you, Alicia drill. Thank you.
Speaker 8 56:22 Alright.
Speaker 2 56:26 These are programs. It's not only you're going to Facebook live and YouTube, but that'll also be presented every day on a special edition, a news Roundup on K S a I. So we're trying to make sure that we can do whatever we can to broaden the distribution of information that helps our community move towards healing and restoration.
